Arc Forumnew | comments | leaders | submitlogin

Thanks! :)

Looking forward to seeing what use you put user-defined unquote macros to!

This is a blog post I wrote up about a bunch of programming I've been doing for my Cene language and some related Racket libraries.

I've finally been able to make an extensible `quasiquote` built on what I call hypersnippets. I've also referred to this as "higher-quasiquotation-shaped syntax" in the past, and lately I understand that my hypersnippets are the exact same thing as what people already refer to as "opetopes" in higher category theory.

Building this kind of extensible `quasiquote` operation is a goal I've been pursuing for two years now. Now I can work on polishing up the code, sorting things out, documenting them... and, ultimately, returning to the task I was doing two years ago before I had to go out of my way to figure out hypersnippets: Doing polish and documentation for the Cene language itself.

2 points by i4cu 2567 days ago | link | parent | on: Self-hosting the Anarki community

Sure, but from what I can see they soon quickly discover they need to use anarki and move over.

And impacting newbies does not appear to be considered in "focus on and develop our unique points of experimental language hacking". So...

edit: maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me what he really wants is a language design group. And I'm fine with that, but I think it's wrong to conflate anarki users with language designers. They are not one in the same.

2 points by akkartik 2567 days ago | link | parent | on: Advanced search for news.arc

Huh, surprising to me that I'm listed as an owner of the arc organization on notabug.org! Did I click on something without realizing what I was doing? I don't see any email from notabug.org about the new organization in my email or trash..

Sorry, it seems I'm not wholly attentive lately.

2 points by akkartik 2567 days ago | link | parent | on: Self-hosting the Anarki community

We still get newcomers with questions about Arc 3.1.
3 points by i4cu 2567 days ago | link | parent | on: Advanced search for news.arc

eh, hem, hem!

I've made an assumption as to why hjek selected notabug. I should know better than to make assumptions... apologies.

3 points by i4cu 2567 days ago | link | parent | on: Advanced search for news.arc

Under knarks "Why the fork?" section hjek links to the 'ethical repository'[1]. Since notabug.com is only for open source projects then the repo's will likely be considered 'free software' which I believe makes it grade A in 'ethical repository' terms.

Personally I find the term 'ethical repository' offensive. It insinuates that non-free software is unethical when the majority of non-free software has no nefarious intent or code. Not exactly the greatest sales pitch in my book.

1. https://www.gnu.org/software/repo-criteria-evaluation.html

2 points by i4cu 2567 days ago | link | parent | on: Self-hosting the Anarki community

Don't let my comments stop you. Your thinking is quite valid. I'm just trying to contribute my opinion in hopes of helping you shape whatever you decide.

> It might actually help some, since separating more could allow us to really focus on and develop our unique points of experimental language hacking.

As far as I can tell, pretty much everyone has moved over to anarki, so I don't understand your comment. How does creating a separate forum for anarki help to "focus on and develop our unique points of experimental language hacking"?

3 points by shader 2568 days ago | link | parent | on: Advanced search for news.arc

This isn't actually related to the work you are doing, but I was curious why you chose to use notabug.org over, say, gitlab.com. I hadn't actually seen the service before you linked to it on this forum.
3 points by shader 2568 days ago | link | parent | on: Self-hosting the Anarki community

Yeah, that's part of why I've never seriously considered it before.

The only reasons for thinking about it now are that 1) we want to add some features to the forum, and there's no way to test them here, and 2) it isn't actually a bad idea to have a community site for Anarki. The risk of weakening the community has deterred me from the idea of forking the arc forum, but if we still treat this as the 'official' arc community, and make a separate site more focused around anarki, I don't think that would be too bad.

It might actually help some, since separating more could allow us to really focus on and develop our unique points of experimental language hacking.

2 points by zck 2569 days ago | link | parent | on: Installation on windows?

I wish arc had better integration with Emacs. I'd love a SLIME/Cider-style integration. With infinite time, I'd like to write one.
3 points by zck 2569 days ago | link | parent | on: Vouch

> Maybe is just needs to be dead first.

Yeah, if you have enough karma, you can see "vouch" links on dead submissions. The easiest way to see this is to go to https://news.ycombinator.com/newest; many of those links will be dead.

2 points by krapp 2569 days ago | link | parent | on: Hook

thanks!
3 points by i4cu 2569 days ago | link | parent | on: Hook

rem only works on seqs, you need to set the value to nil:

  (= (mytable 'key) nil)
and tables don't hold nil valued entries so it works.
3 points by krapp 2569 days ago | link | parent | on: Hook

OK, I have a stupid question. How do I remove an item from a table?

Apparently it's (rem test table) but everything I've tried fails with "Can't take car of #hash(("foo" . (app-run "foo")))" I also thought I might have to assign nil to it but that returns an error as well. Here is my current code if it helps... it's just minor edits of prompt.arc, assignment and running an app in a hook all work:

    (def app-unhook (user app)
      (do ((rem !app hooks*) 
          (editor-page user "Hook removed from " app))))

    (def app-hook (user app) 
      (if (file-exists (app-filepath app))
        (do ((= (hooks* app) `(app-run ,app))
            (editor-page user "Hook applied to " app)))
        (editor-page user "Error: No application " app)))
I feel like I'm probably missing something obvious.
3 points by i4cu 2570 days ago | link | parent | on: Vouch

My understanding is just that - it's the opposite of flag, however I thought there was some karma threshold or something that permitted vouch to occur, where as flag was fairly immediate. Maybe is just needs to be dead first.

You can also see from here:

https://blog.ycombinator.com/two-hn-announcements/

  Today’s new feature lets users rescue [dead] posts on a 
  case by case basis. Beside the ‘flag’ link, you’ll see a 
  ‘vouch’ link to click when a post should not be [dead]. 
  When enough users vouch for a post, the software will 
  unkill it. Think of vouches as the inverse of flags: a 
  flag says that a post shouldn’t be on HN; a vouch says it 
  should.""
2 points by i4cu 2570 days ago | link | parent | on: Self-hosting the Anarki community

Another option is to ensure the service has a robust failover procedure towards a secondary free service as a temporary measure. And maybe someway to safely automate an intentional failover.

edit: my original comment was in consideration of the arc forum potentially going away. Honestly I'm not sure I would move over if that wasn't the case. I'd have to see :)

4 points by shader 2570 days ago | link | parent | on: Self-hosting the Anarki community

Or maybe the immediate and painful result of breaking the forum would motivate us to be more careful and fix the issues more quickly. It probably won't happen that often anyway.

I was about to say that an outage might risk killing the community, which would be bad, but 1) we still have this forum and GitHub (as krapp points out), and 2) if the community is really so weak that it can't revert a commit in order to get the forum running again, it's probably not worth hosting a separate site anyway.

The idea is growing on me, just because of how audacious it is. (^^)

I do agree with some of your point though; it would be good to have some separate logging and bootstrap systems in place so that we can detect and repair faults more easily, without the intervention of a specific admin. For one thing, the software that pulls the changes will probably not be arc-based, so it should still be running even if the forum goes down. Secondly, we could try to set it up so that it always pulls hotfix patches immediately when the logging / monitor system indicates failure.

Also, marking a particular branch (probably not master) as a more 'stable' version might be good.

3 points by krapp 2570 days ago | link | parent | on: Self-hosting the Anarki community

If that's an argument against us using Anarki then it also seems like an argument against anyone using Anarki, or at least against anyone blindly committing it to production. Breakage can happen with any open source project, but given the generally slow nature of the community, even if news is likely to break, it isn't likely to break often.

Also, we already have Github to check and discuss it, and I think there is a more appropriate venue than here for those issues.

5 points by i4cu 2570 days ago | link | parent | on: Self-hosting the Anarki community

Given the open nature of the anarki repo, it's likely that news will break. And when it does we wouldn't be able to discuss it.

So unless these tests could prove that the forum would work (which is highly unlikely) then my vote would be not to do this. It's akin to putting the services issue logging/tracking system under the same service [1]. It's a bad idea IMO.

1. http://arclanguage.org/item?id=20573

2 points by hjek 2570 days ago | link | parent | on: Installation on windows?

Oh, symlinks! I see.
3 points by akkartik 2570 days ago | link | parent | on: Installation on windows?

That was my initial thinking as well, hence the ':/'.

But later I realized there's a good reason: http://arclanguage.org/item?id=20641

3 points by shader 2571 days ago | link | parent | on: Installation on windows?

I think if we fork the community site to run on anarki. which I think is more likely than being given control over the Arc Forum, we should consider ways to archive and bring forward all of the stuff on the existing arc forum. It shouldn't be too hard to crawl the forum, though I think there might be some DoS prevention that would slow it down.
4 points by shader 2571 days ago | link | parent | on: Self-hosting the Anarki community

For anarchic service management, what do you think about trying to set it up so that the service is automatically updated if the latest commit passes some form of CI testing? The CI tests themselves could be updated if the new version passes the latest working version of the site.

It would still be possible for someone to break things in two passes of "delete the tests" then "delete the server" but regular automated backups should mitigate the risks somewhat. And we haven't had many problems with spammers anyway...

3 points by hjek 2571 days ago | link | parent | on: Installation on windows?

Why aren't we just using

    cd $(dirname "$0")
to change to the arc dir?

greadlink shouldn't be necessary.

2 points by hjek 2571 days ago | link | parent | on: Installation on windows?

Then we would be even able to actually search stuff on the site!
2 points by hjek 2571 days ago | link | parent | on: Installation on windows?

> "wait, is this old site really still up? Let's just take it down."

That is a valid concern. Perhaps, we could ask that if YC chooses to shut it down, could they at least give someone here a copy of the `www` folder?

Then someone could take over hosting this forum (which possibly might be on a different domain).

I have a somewhat reliable server running anyway, and it wouldn't be a problem for me to do this, but if someone else could do it, that would also be great.

But yes, worst case scenario is that this site is nuked. But that would just be such a disrespectful response, so I kinda doubt it..?

3 points by akkartik 2571 days ago | link | parent | on: Installation on windows?

I kinda misspoke. The explanation is at the top of the file:

    Put a symlink to this script somewhere in your path.
The goal seems to be to deduce where the sources are, independent of where the driver script is called from.
3 points by i4cu 2571 days ago | link | parent | on: Installation on windows?

ok thanks. I wasn't familiar with greadlink so I didn't know it was a 'thing'.
More